Feedback and Suggestions - Witchest witch defenses - Forum - Path of Exile (2024)

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Andrius319 wrote:

Tell me, what do you pair pure es with which is exclusive to pure es or works best with pure es?

Chaos Innoculation.
Divine Shield.
Vile Bastion.
Essence Glutton.
Aegis Aurora.
Incandescent Heart.

the only weird thing with ES is one can achieve higher ES by stacking STR or mana than from gear with ES.

just some crazy thought but it would be nice if vile bastion could turn chaos resistance into ES so the +60% chaos ress from Withering Presence would not feel like a waste if taking CI.

say: if CI is allocated then increases to chaos resistance will instead apply % more ES at 40% of its value.

self found league fan

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1

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caboom wrote:

the only weird thing with ES is one can achieve higher ES by stacking STR or mana than from gear with ES.

just some crazy thought but it would be nice if vile bastion could turn chaos resistance into ES so the +60% chaos ress from Withering Presence would not feel like a waste if taking CI.

say: if CI is allocated then increases to chaos resistance will instead apply % more ES at 40% of its value.

Except I wouldn't really call that weird. It takes a very specialized tree and gear to achieve those highest ES numbers, and the investment is quite a bit higher than just straight up ES gear. The same is true of many other mechanics in the game: the highest numbers are achieved using a very special combination of mechanics that pretty often go "against" the normal build type.

Regarding the 60% chaos res: i think the point is that if you go that route (like how folks used to / still use Chayula's Presence), you WOULDN'T take chaos innoculation. It would almost just be a straight nerf and mistake to take CI if you take Withering Presence. They don't synergize, and they kinda don't really have to....Withering Presence is straight up designed to supplant CI.

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sidtherat wrote:

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.8 recharge start delay is actually very comfortable ONCE YOU GET USED TO PLAY along, charging head first is a suicide

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This!
This type of build cannot charge in and expect to survive. This sort of thing would be fair, i think, if there would be a trade off, but im not sure if player gets an upside for going this route. Still, its interesting that it is possible to play around with it in some ways.

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Jixa87 wrote:

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Andrius319 wrote:

Tell me, what do you pair pure es with which is exclusive to pure es or works best with pure es?

Chaos Innoculation.
Divine Shield.
Vile Bastion.
Essence Glutton.
Aegis Aurora.
Incandescent Heart.

Divine shield and aegis aurora are not for pure es, both need armor. Chaos innoculation allows to focus more on es, but nothing major on its own here. Vile bastion, essence glutton gives more than some recovery but alone it still doesnt cut it, at least for pure es. Incandesent heart, havent dabbled with it, seems the trade here is give away 400 es (before modifiers) to gain 33% more es against elemental damage, mhh, it might be an improvement over 750 es chest but not a major one. Overall imo those are not enough for pure es, with all those you would still die fast in a group of mobs.

where im getting at, you can maybe make it work when getting all of the above and add on top of it block, but it is going to be quite an inferior version to ev/es or ar/es version.

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caboom wrote:

the only weird thing with ES is one can achieve higher ES by stacking STR or mana than from gear with ES.

just some crazy thought but it would be nice if vile bastion could turn chaos resistance into ES so the +60% chaos ress from Withering Presence would not feel like a waste if taking CI.

say: if CI is allocated then increases to chaos resistance will instead apply % more ES at 40% of its value.

yes, it is weird. Generally im not a fan of stat stacking, might be better if it would be just on par of normal version of es stacking. But rather i would be more than fine if that straight basic es stacking would be more on par with everything else.

Interesting take on chaos resistance to more es. It may work in general gist, but some restriction should be placed so top end of es stacking from stat stacking wouldnt receive even more es.

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sidtherat wrote:

this is A LOT for a character that plays FAR from any danger.

i think this is a bit of an elephant in the room here.

im not gonna get into this extended debate about hybrids of defences vs single defences etc, weve done that a lot and i think everyones play experience in these matters is radically different and we just all see things different as a result.

heres the thing: how many melee = sh*t posts are there on the forum? how many armour = worthless? how many evasion = dogsh*t?

an awful lot.

lets forget the arguments about if ES is or isnt a sub par defence. park that.

SHOULD es be a sub par defence?

if a witch is as tanky as a duelist or a mrauder, is that good for the game? im gonna argue that would be terrible for the game. i know the whole poe endless hybrids build style means that you can have the melee witch, the cast marauder, the bow duelist, blah blah.

but through large parts of the games history es has been seen as the best defence method in the game, and thats a big problem when casters are also the most nuke from orbit, hide behind my minions, mass freeze, burn prolif the entire map with 1 spell type builds in the game.

now bows have come along way over the last few years and are also outrageous now, but also evasion on its own is probably the weakest of the 3 defences. id pick es on its own before id pick evasion on its own in hc. armour on its own is also sh*t tho compared to hybrids of something right? be it block, taken as, another core defence, whatever.

i think we have to look at int as being the source of a lot of the cannon in the game and a lot of the minion cheese etc. if it wasnt relatively glass where would that leave melee?

does that mean an imbalance at the top of the tree? errrrrrrr i dunno, i feel like people still use witches? I use witches a lot, with ci more often than not, i hybrid it with armour, with evasion. maybe pure es doesnt get much of a look in but does pure anything? doesnt the sprawl of poe result in a situation where u have access to everything and enough investment potential to grab a number of things and builds are more interesting if they have lots of aspects so pure anything just as a result is probably a bad idea most of the time?

maybe witch just should be a bit more of a cannon choice.

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Andrius319 wrote:

where im getting at, you can maybe make it work when getting all of the above and add on top of it block, but it is going to be quite an inferior version to ev/es or ar/es version

An inferior version? The combination above is one of the highest eHP combinations, in the game.
Let me introduce you to what's known in our group as "Dad Build"
You can go afk at a moments notice and at no point be worried your character will die. 412k eHP against Uber Bosses, inf ehp against all other content.
https://pobb.in/8xvzTmzxWZKd

You either need a way to deal with incoming physical damage, which is armour, evasion, positioning your character or convert all phys to elemental.
But you have to do it effeciently, you can't spend 123 points to obtain pure ES and leave 0 room for damage. The answer is never one single mechanic, people who have played this game for years know this.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

SHOULD es be a sub par defence?

No, it should be different. Which, in an alternate reality where the game has a more deliberate pace, it is.

What I can say about ES is that it has the best defense supports in the game.
Es scales best and highest int providing 2% per 10 is the broken DNA of ES, Chaos Inoculation for full immunity (lol that keystone is so unbelievably broken).
Divine Shield for very good regen provided there is some pdr from flasks and auras.
Given the higher ES pools by nature there will be always better regeneration scaling based on that pool.

Ghostreaver is decent. When it comes to leech ES actually has a balanced drawback of 10% base leech instead of 20%. I say balanced because ES builds should easily outscale life values by twice in average cases.

Zealots Oath wonderful keystone for extra regen.

Going low life using Pain Attunement with an ES pool and shavs was quite a thing at least in the past.

I dont know why ES is considered a "Defence" while it behaves much more like a life pool.

As for the Witch: In my opinion the witch ascendancy classes suck. Witch has a good start on the tree and thats about it.

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zzang wrote:

I dont know why ES is considered a "Defence" while it behaves much more like a life pool.

But those aren't exclusive options; there's nothing about the word "defence" that implies "doesn't behave like a life pool". The important thing is that it isn't your life pool. Regardless of how it behaves, through that behaviour it reduces the amount of damage that gets to your life pool. Which is to say, it defends you.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

But those aren't exclusive options; there's nothing about the word "defence" that implies "doesn't behave like a life pool". The important thing is that it isn't your life pool. Regardless of how it behaves, through that behaviour it reduces the amount of damage that gets to your life pool. Which is to say, it defends you.

Eh....I disagree with this. For the purposes of PoE, ES is absolutely a secondary lifepool and NOT a defense. Just because it isn't literally called "life" doesn't make that false. There is no unspoken rule that LIFE is the only lifepool available. With the way that it is treated AND supported in the game, the three main lifepools are ES, Life, and Mana. NONE of these things act as "defense" in any way: that is to say a mechanic that acts exclusively on monster damage or attacks.

By my definition:
1) a LIFEPOOL is something that has no interaction with incoming damage. This INCLUDES guard skills that give temporary lifepool increases. This INCLUDES Mind over Matter. This INCLUDES ES. None of these things operate as a function of monster damage, they just simply "are".

2) a DEFENSE is something that interacts with damage or attacks outside of the character. Avoidance deals with attacks, Armour deals with damage, Evasion deals with attacks, SS deals with damage, etc.

3) a RECOVERY is something that interacts with your lifepool, but does not increase your lifepool directly. Additionally, a recovery does not interact with damage but rather takes effect AFTER damage has been taken.